Fab Giovanetti
Just from that. So in my view in my back to that assumption, actually, marketing that is aligned with the or been impactful and transparent and honest, works pretty damn well, because it brings the right people in there, we'll come back and we'll bring more of the right people. And
Finola Howard
That's Fab Giovanetti, Chief Marketing rebel with alt Marketing School. I came across Fab when I was listed as one of their top 100 Trailblazers for 2023. She is committed to making marketing more human impactful and fun. And in this episode of your truth shared, we talk about why marketing is becoming less about persuasion, and more about helping businesses make better decisions that are in alignment with who they are. I'm Finola Howard, intuitive marketer, your host and founder of how great marketing works, I believe that every business has a story to tell, because that's how the market decides whether to buy or not. And your story has to resonate with who you are and with the people you want to serve. And this podcast is about helping you reach the market in a way that feels right to you. So if you're an entrepreneur with a dream you want to make real, then this is the podcast for you. Because great marketing is your truth shared. We're going to talk about marketing from a different perspective, a perspective that's actually getting a lot more traction. And it's been driven by marketers, which I love. And I have the lock and privilege to introduce you to fob G over Nettie, who describes herself as a chief marketing rebel. And she didn't like what was happening with marketing the world, and that eek that's associated with marketing, so decided to set up her own alternative, or all Marketing School. Welcome fab.
Fab Giovanetti
Hello, and thank you, thank you for welcoming me, I was literally going to say hello, and welcome. I just got into podcast mode myself. So bless you. Now, we're not going to do a reverse interview, everybody, we're all good. We're here, we're landed. Thank you for having me.
Finola Howard
Let's talk a little bit about this whole as we started this conversation, just because I was curious as to why you decided to do this, and you have a different approach to marketing. And I love this piece that's on the site that says because I fully subscribed to this view myself, as lots of people would know. And it's this idea of what you say in old marketing school, learn how to market to hearts, not brains, marketing should be fun, impactful, and human tells that story. That story
Fab Giovanetti
starts in a way with actually our students always shouting out to our students, because they're the ones that shaped half of the score some some of it comes from my values, and what I wanted to see that was in there, but especially the elements, so I guess they human and fun. They came from our students. And we were chatting before this actual conversation, I said that one of the biggest, the biggest recurring sentence that our students would say was, oh, yeah, marketing always gave me the EQ, some, some are students, even new marketing or other in the past lives, or they were into the sphere already. And just I just, I don't want myself or my clients or my work for other people to perceive it in a way that feels icky to feel sticky. And it always jumped out at me. So we have a school that is all about marketing two hearts. And that's the initial proposition. But then this marketing doesn't give you the X started, which sounds like a disease, but it's not started to feed into the conversation it could be. And then the fun piece is because humble pilot, I bring a very particular energy to everything we do and everything we do as a school. So once again, that was fed through by the students repeating this again and again and again. So that the story actually goes with I combined what I wanted to see and what I wanted to do, which was marketing that speaks to hearts. And then what our students loved about us and wanted to see more of which is the fun element, which is the human element.
Finola Howard
But there is this perception of there has been this perception out there that, you know, people are so turned off by marketing that you had to do it in this awful, icky way in order to have the results. So the question obviously will then come is if we're marketing to hearts and not using all the techniques and the formulas and the approaches and the ruthlessness and the manipulative pneus that we see everywhere. Is doesn't work. You
Fab Giovanetti
reckon us Are you record and we would argue that what marketing is about No, there's assumption that doesn't worry Yeah, that's what that's what I was saying. I love that you mentioned this because this is very matter at time of recording though. I literally very proudly took a snippet from our latest episode of the podcast saying them on the school by the way of marketing school. And I said to my one of my co hosts were rotating co hosts, Jess, I was talking to her and I explained that for us, I got a couple of taglines and quotables. And one of my favourites is great marketing is not about persuasion is about direction. And she got all excited. And we did a little dance because I love to dance is just you know, if Bacchus was a medium, with video, you would see me dancing halfway, anyway. And the reason why I said this is because going back to what your question and point is the assumption that it doesn't work, if it's not it key, so to speak, or if it's not all about using the power of psychology, which is what we teach as well, by the way, if we use it not for good or not so good, then it's not as effective. And I generally believe that this is a disservice to our customers or potential consumers in whether we think that they are not smart enough not to realise, actually, that we're not doing things in a way that is aligned in a way that is unethical, or that is masking something. And I'm really blessed to have lots of teachers in our faculty that are incredibly skilled at breaking this down from greenwashing to value driven marketing, just to reiterate, that, whilst we don't know things, obviously, if we don't know better, then we need to learn. And I think that's where we come in, we bring that knowledge, then people do whatever they want with that knowledge, but in answer to the question, what marketing is about persuasion, not sorry, their action or persuasion, because actually, when you direct people to the right solution, if you've done all the good steps, and that's the problem, the unsexy foundation that you have to build, if you build the right foundations, you will attract the right people and people that are not right to you, you will dissuade them from coming into your world, which will lead to happier customers, repeat customers advocates, you know, little power cheerleaders, just from that. So in my view, am I back to that assumption? Actually, marketing that is aligned with the obedient platform and transparent and honest, works pretty damn well, because it brings the right people in there, we'll come back, and we'll bring more of the right people in.
Finola Howard
But he also made this other really good point. Because, again, I agree with you. That's I mean, I just love that we're of the same mind on this. But here's a really good question. Which is, you said once the right foundation is in getting all the steps in and I see that, that that idea of the shortcut of Do you see that a lash like that reticence to doing the work of putting in that whole process in that allows you to bring all those people that are aligned with your values that, that you have that correct match between you and your customer, that is an alignment, but there is a resistance to doing the foundation?
Fab Giovanetti
I'm gonna, I'm gonna break it down into potential pathways. The answer is there can be resistance for some people. However, if we're looking at both small business owners, which sometimes come to the school, because if if they know exactly what we're going to give, and like, I still are learning myself, please come through, and come forth. We also marketers, right, so I'm gonna go with the business owners first. And then I'm going to bring the marketers down business owners, I would actually say that if you sell gorgeous homemade pottery just came to mind. I am not expecting or asking you to learn about the foundations of marketing, unless that's what you want to do. So the lack of knowledge that to me is because you are, and this is one one avenue, you're being fed information by actually trying to learn things to do everything yourself. And sometimes the sources that you choose to learn how to do marketing are the ones that one either are misaligned. So they're not really teaching the foundation or or introducing the foundations, or they're not even doing it with malice. If I'm looking at an Instagram coach, that teachers are the Instagram coaches or that, you know, teachers on high group programmes, for example, he's more likely they're gonna try to give you the quick fixes the X, the little things that can potentially have massive results on their platform or on social. I do believe there's some of them even after that they might break down the foundations. But as a business owner, you're trying to consume content to learn everything yourself. And because of that, you're building a toolkit that can have a hammer, and a duster in the same thing, and it doesn't really work if you're trying to build a goddamn table. When it comes to the marketers. I don't know why this analogy came from, okay. My husband is very much into woodworking these days. So that you've got if you look at the marketers, we have a similar proposition, but I think is different here. Again, I'm a self taught marketer, I didn't know about your background, but I'm self taught. And I'm going to put my hand up and say that for the first five years, I still thought that by understanding things on the girl, I would actually build like a great strategic mindset. It took me 15 years to get there and that's okay because I'm appreciative of that because that's what I did and I'm I follow my journey. But some marketers actually done even know what they don't know, again. And I think as long as you're trying to seek the knowledge on the area that you're passionate about, to actually do it better, to do it more consistently to provide better results, and to really make a difference. Once again, this is all the gifts, I believe that even as a marketer, you will start realising that social media SEO, content marketing, email marketing, at some point, you need to get back to the foundations because without systems and processes, and building the right foundations, you're going to be overworked, you're going to be tired, you're not going to be able to prioritise and set boundaries. I don't know if explains that. But I thought these are actually two different pathways, they might bring this issue lovers.
Finola Howard
A lot of like, the boundaries also. And that. Because yeah, because we have, we're teaching people that they have to constantly, constantly, constantly be consistent, consistent, imaginative, creative, and forgetting about those those processes and stuff that actually take the load off, and actually allow us to focus on the stuff that we are magical, that we are our best place to be. Do you think that one of the conversations we had was about the fact that excuse me, and I said this to you last time, I asked how old you were, so forgive me for this. And I share that I'm 55. And we talked about, you know, the different generations. And you said you're a millennial. And I wanted to know, because I wanted to understand is there is the change occurring now, because of millennials is this openness to talking about marketing from the heart, finding a way to make marketing work, that doesn't give you the IQ? That doesn't feel so wrong to you? That's not an alignment? Do you think millennials have really pushed that? Do you think that there is? Do you think there's a connection there?
Fab Giovanetti
I could get us millennials to take the credit card with our bum bags. And I will just crunches it be like it was us everybody. But actually, no, I think we we championed the change, we're really drove it actually thinking about this question. I was thinking about it again. It's actually Gen Z because they first as consumers were the one that were looking for more for more value driven marketing for more value driven brands for more transparent and honest brands, when they were consumers. So yes, and no, no, we have the millennials than we can with our bombax Apologies, I'm just getting really very stereotypical image of us. And then we said, well, we are the workforce, especially at the time as as Gen Z was entering the workforce. So not just yet. So even just five years ago, for some of us, and we knew that they were their customers, they were a new customer base. So we needed to learn how to cater for this new customer base that was screaming, for honest, transparent marketing, communication, storytelling. So they are the ones that drove that change by asking for it. And maybe I would say, because we were looking at when they shifted into becoming a big part of the marketing world, if you want to put it that way. We are the ones that had to implement it first. And then together, we're constantly driving that change. So I hope we answered the question. But that's how I see it probably happening
Finola Howard
that perhaps that they were the ones because the way was laid, I think by each generation, because you know, each generation learns from the last improves on the stuff that they didn't feel it was right in the last generation. So obviously, things just evolve. But maybe it was that they had the balls to do it.
Fab Giovanetti
I would say so I would say so. And
Finola Howard
I say this now because I want listeners to understand that this is not just a nice to have perspective that this is their market, their market is demanding. So Gen Z coming in and demanding this. And I mean, that's why I kind of wanted to have that conversation about the generations, because otherwise, it's just this idea of, you know, that has no relevance to your business or to your life. Whereas if we actually understand this is about understanding the customer. So that leads me to my next question, do you feel? Or do you get any sense because you have all of these students are in this space, that corporations and large brands are moving in this space. Also,
Fab Giovanetti
I've seen from our faculty, especially, also coming from agencies or specific consulting firms as well, as much as ourselves. We work with smaller companies from the agency side of what I do, but I've seen a shift what the danger is, again, when it comes to the shift is to try to do something for to tick a box. And that's always a fine balance of trying to read between the lines for a lot of consumers. I think that's one of the issues when it comes to larger corporations. And balancing the idea that and this is really interesting came from last year or the year before the talk. We're talking about diversity and inclusion. And somebody said, Well, my boss from large corporations said, Well, aren't we doing enough? and I put it back to this person that we're asking, obviously, well, how can they communicate that? And I said, Well, you've, you're never going to be doing enough. But in a way, you can always do a little, a little extra thing you can always do, try and improve a little thing. If you look at it as incremental changes that you can make. It feels achievable. And also it feels it is more honest. And it is more impactful. Instead of trying to do a big thing as a show, which we can call greenwashing. If we're looking at sustainability, we can call it like a lot of things. And then actually, when it comes to the backend, it doesn't reflect on everything else. So yes, and no, we've seen a shift, yes, there is a change. But kind of I wish, I don't know, it's that's what we're here to do as well in our small little way. That can be more awareness around, you know, the limitations of ticking the boxes. And really, the fact that some of this work is longer term, and it will be made of small steps, they can all build a bigger picture. Rather than trying to do everything in one go. Just to say, Oh, now we're accessible, we can move on, because there's always going to be something you can learn from your audience is always going to be a way that you can cater more for one of your subsets of your people as well. I want to shout out to one two humans that are amazing. Luis, he can throw you Casto as well. So Louis, on LinkedIn, I'll send me the link we can put in the show notes. And Catherine Lewis as well, from Alicia, she talks about accessibility a lot. And they're great people, they're really champion understanding of what accessibility can mean. And some of the things that we don't realise that that space of accessibility, I think, is a really interesting to look at when it comes to bigger corporations and other approaches kind of stuff. The
Finola Howard
other thing that I wanted to talk to you about as well as Is he the most obvious statement in the world, the world is changing, right? But it's it's this, so much is changing, right? Sustainability is becoming huge. diversity, equality and inclusion is huge, high sensitivity in an overly saturated, noisy world. A lot of the stuff from a noisy saturated world, do you what impact do you think that has neuro divergence, high sensitivity, like there's an increase in people who are new or divergent, or they're being recognised as new or divergent, and it's a positive thing, not a negative thing to be hidden away, high sensitivity to be respected, to be allowed for, for people to be marketed to differently in this perspective, of what are you seeing in this space,
Fab Giovanetti
I'm going to speak from my personal experience as somebody who's highly sensitive hair, all lives with mental health, challenges and long life. One of the things that I noticed and we talked about generations and generational differences for the reason, actually, as well, before we jumped on the podcast before is that I always felt that there was something that was different. And I always felt that I was struggling with my mental health, even when I was a child. So I started very young. And at the time, I couldn't voice it, or even if I voiced it, I felt that there will be a label put upon me and I will be judged for it. So a lot of people, I, I say to me, Oh, now there are a lot more people that are finding challenges or they are struggling with a mental health impairment, it might not even be that it might be more of us actually feel they can openly talk about it in whichever capacity they want. I don't make it a big part of my message. But obviously, it's part of who I am. So whether you look at neuro divergence or mental health issues, or high sensitivity, a lot of people are more feeling more open to talk about him. And I think what I appreciate about it from a marketing perspective, how we are all different is that it also means that for jobs and marketing, which we don't talk about enough isn't one of them was in 2020, I believe it was 2021 of the three most stressful jobs in the UK. Telemarketing was the first one I understand why marketing was third. Because we don't appreciate that, especially for somebody again, talking about my personal perspective, because that's the lived experience. I have somebody who lives with mental health struggles, having to communicate with people connect with people talk to people, network sometimes can be a struggle, but as a marketer, we are unwritten and appreciate how much of that is about communication is about connecting so in terms of our customer service. So however you experience life, even if you love marketing, you actually find the struggles because sometimes it's not the kindness the world's the online world. And so I think it's more about people opening up about it because one Yes, more people are getting correctly diagnosed eventually the recognition is there, but also the more people feel open to explain it to share that there is another way to go about share your story. Be present Online, grow your brand, market yourself. But also do it in a way to protect yourself. We talked about boundaries earlier, right? Protect yourself, be kinder to yourself. And hopefully by talking about it, we can also always think about how can I be kinder to others as well? How can I be kind to others when I show up online, won't always be the case. But I think it's good for us to be able to think about how to protect ourselves in this way so that we can show up in the best possible way.
Finola Howard
Do you think a sea change has come or is coming? Where there's space created for us to acknowledge the role of marketing the role of communication, in, in life, in work and in life, in how we market to customers, even how we treat people in organisations? Because that's internal marketing, internal communication, that the kindness piece, even you know, that we had that other podcasts, which is the kindness economy, like this, this idea that marketing could actually heal? In some ways?
Fab Giovanetti
I will not I mean, first of all, I would love that to be literally the case, if marketing could could heal. But I think there was a lot of impact that can be made by just looking at marketing as relationship building. So the answer is, yes, because more people are choosing how to share their story and are and are able to share the story as well. Because even if it's something as simple as being able to create content, to post it online, you know, again, if you are, you know, if you don't think about it sometimes for some of us actually is really hard to create the content, whether it's a film or whether it's to write even things like this. So even just the fact that that can become more accessible for us, it's a big, changing shift. So that is one thing, the platforms that we use, everything that we use can actually become more accessible for more people. But yeah, I think in general, we're trying to build a culture that using and borrowing the words from the marketing Meetup is more positively lovely for everybody. And is when communities or individuals or a school like ourselves, build themselves up to become spaces for people that share the same values, I think that's a big one to come together and be like, actually, we can do things differently, we can do it together, it creates a culture that fosters that sharing, you know, so obviously, individuals by zoom, also, as individuals, there's so much we can do. And sometimes it can be hard, and we feel like we're alone. So I think that extra addition of community places, schools, everything, physical spaces, online spaces, where people that have that same ideal can come together, is going to bring even more voices to the forefront.
Finola Howard
Like the idea that you've just talked about over the last while, which is that our voices are becoming much more our greater instruments for how we can make our voices, our stories, our having the bravery to share those stories, and using those stories to make those voices louder, regardless of who you are. There's another back to the boundaries conversation, which is there's a stick that everybody is beaten with, which is the stick of consistency. Now consistency is facilitated very often by automation by really good processes and systems. But very often also, small businesses don't have those processes, or systems in place. And they're caught on treadmills or on what do you call that? A rat in a? You know, that wheel? Tread wheel treadmill? Yeah, of just being consistent, mindlessly consistent. That mindless consistency that I don't believe does anybody any favours, what's your experience of that challenge and that overwhelm for small businesses and for marketers,
Fab Giovanetti
very interestingly, at time of recording, I just started to be more consistent, quote unquote, and more consistent online. Again, as myself as personal brand, and I'm going to echo what again, my co hosts which are talked about earlier and our one of our teachers, Jasper Anna talks about all the time, which is consistency to start, can you imagine you show up once a week or would that once a week you show up? So that's something that she says And to top it up with my own experiences I think the idea to make content or content creation or showing up fun is pretty much at the bottom of the list is about value lover obsessed, give value to your audience because otherwise what's the point of them getting in sometimes we feel value and we feel is overloaded with it has to be given us something that has to be educational or has to be almost dense in value value can also be just making you laugh can also be just making it relatable. So I appreciate the value piece and I first educated myself but also you add the value has to be informative, it has to be promotional it has to be has to has to be but what about the should also be just fun or something that is easy for you to create a format that comes easy to you. I just like to bring it back to basics. And that's what I did I shock everybody love to be talking on camera. And I actually don't mind video format. I've done it for a very long time. So speaking on stage spiritual or non virtual is something that I do really well. So I love creating that kind of content. So for me, it's very natural to show up that way. Yes, I could do carousels for my personal brand. And maybe they will perform well. But I chose not to do that mainly for the fact that is not the content that I want to build and create. And you will have to find a compromise. Sometimes I understand that. But I think starting back with trying to infuse a bit more fun. If you don't have the capacity to literally create whatever you want. Because you work with a team or you're working with a client. I think there's still that reminder that consistency is hard to build when you have to do a lot of things and content becomes yet another to do on your list. And the idea of content is that you want to create something that starts with joy from your side, so that when people watch it or experience it, I genuinely believe it's a much more pleasant experience. If you hate it, so you just feed off chat GBT and copy paste it, then it does sound like a robot. There's none of you in it. And what is the point? I
Finola Howard
love that. But I also love this idea that fun is valuable. That's it? Yeah, I have a little story when I used to work in New York many, many years ago. And I remember going for lunch one day going across Central Park, and I was with a friend of mine. And we're just walking along. And this guy jumped out in front of us and stuck something in our faces. And it was a banana and he shouted at us. This is a banana stick up, give me your money. And we just laughed. So we gave him money. This was his way of begging. This was his way of having money. And I like that was valuable. You made us laugh. So yeah. Talk to me then about how old marketing school came about? What's happened? You're quite young. Are you into four years now? Or? Yes.
Fab Giovanetti
10 years, 10 years in business, but three years of the school, three
Finola Howard
years of the school? What have been your greatest learnings of setting up the school? Why did you set it up? What are the greatest learnings and what's coming next?
Fab Giovanetti
Why I set up because it was nothing like it. Yeah, and I felt I wanted to combine what I loved which is once again, storytime Fun fact, I used to love teaching things that I learned at school, I guess, but to my stuff, toys, the blast, couldn't run couldn't hide, they were just there, I would just teach them things like on a mini lecture middle lesson. And they will you know if they had a mind, God knows what they will be thinking. So I always loved to put myself into that teacher space without really realising it. Also, at uni, I did a bit of that. But I got pedagogy because of languages. So there was a bit of danger. So I combined something that I learned and something that I've done for colleges, and I've done for organisations before that in the seven years that I've been doing other things as well. So I knew that I enjoy that. And I could see the results and the feedback that the live teaching especially is a big thing for me. So did it because I took something that I loved is that iki guy that now the person I'm gonna shut out about Lara Sheldrake from founding flourish. Another one our teachers talks about all the time, is that purpose, passion, something that you're good at something and the world needs. So the combination of all these things mean that I knew that I wanted to find a better, high quality, but cost effective, because we have scholarships as well, we have our certification, we try to make it reasonably priced for what you actually get out of it. Alternative to university to give you the foundation we talked about earlier, to really learn about marketing. If you look at a certification, if you look at the courses, they're individual, they're even more affordable. So I wanted to be able to give people great marketing knowledge that works that is based in frameworks, from amazing teachers, including some of my learnings, and some of the things I want to teach. And that taught me so many things. So that's a shorter version of why I did it. And obviously see that people wanted that then gives you you know, the little gun, the green light that you need. As you can tell, I probably as you can probably tell, I have a lot of ideas. So I think one of the biggest learning for me was that even if I had a lot of ideas, and I could see seven steps ahead in my head, that's always been a thing for me, which I know some people struggle with. So if you don't relate with that, I appreciate that. I always knew what I wanted to do. And if I shifted what I wanted to do, I knew what I wanted to do next. It brings an issue here though, which is good things take time. So when you have that forward thinking seven steps ahead, you can get really impatient, which is something that I've been known for. And so it's hard it was hard for me in You're one to appreciate that it will take me longer to actually just even build the recognition and the grant from being a small school, which meant a lot of readjusting, which meant letting go of perfection at first and just getting things out and getting them down and learning. And I'm always been open to feedback. I never, it depends on how it's given. But I'm always welcoming it, I'm never shying away from it, I would rather know and make things better. Because practice, one of the things that I love to I love to say practice makes progress. So if you don't do something, learn from it, and then do it again. So that's a big thing. For me. I think these are the biggest learnings that I've had. One thing that I think I had to really step back from and realise was that I needed to try different things and have a space which people don't talk about a lot. I was really lucky that I could I was working on freelance work on the side, you know, now we have an agency side of it, but still similar thing, right? So was working with consulting as well, and some clients. But what that allowed me to do is experiment, which not everybody has the luxury to do. But then some people don't even think about doing when it comes to their business, they don't say I'm gonna give myself six months, and actually, I'm gonna try a few things. And I'm gonna learn from them. Sometimes put all my eggs in one basket, and we go for it. And then is great in some ways. But for me, sadly, I had to pivot so many times or readjust. I had a time last year when I just experimented a lot and and we're coming at the end of this the end of this quarter time of recording, I'm going to stop the experimenting. And then we're going to iterate now have a very big clarity on the focus that we want to get. Which limits to what's coming up next. But I just wanted to take a break a second in case there was any reflection because a little bit went went for it.
Finola Howard
Yeah, but this is the thing that I liked this idea of giving yourself time to be curious to explore, to try things out to see what fits it also gives you space to see if it's in alignment to these ideas, does that fit with the overall view of the business of where you want to take it? And trying and trying but if in your mind that you had, but there is that story of Google are very early on that they allowed their employees have 20% of their time where they just explored. They just played with ideas. Why can we do that in small businesses,
Fab Giovanetti
I understand the pressure of time, money and all these things. I that's the thing, I want to always always keep it real. And I think then that you just want I suggest our students to do is appreciate and adjust the level and scale of your experiment. Even if this parameter is small enough, and is literally should I do videos or going back to content or carousels based on again, fun value, ease of creation systems and processes. This is how my brain works. Everybody based on these things? What, you know, what should I do? What can I this is a smaller experiment takes a bit of time. But it's not like experimenting and trying to different servers propositions or a complete new brand. But it can still give you lots when you learn that maybe you should do carousels because a more time efficient, they're more fun to bring more back when it comes to how you want to serve your audience. So think about the scale of your experiments, if you are worried about all the objections that you might have to actually try to do one, you know.
Finola Howard
But I still think the the overall message is we've got to give ourselves space to experiment. Permission to experiment. And that's
Fab Giovanetti
the thing. Sometimes it's best for most time, especially when you are one of the decision makers in whatever you do is, is giving yourself permission. And one more thing I want to add before I get to what's next for us is that I'm working with some clients as I've done obviously, for the past 10 years, that's been the thing that has been constant. And I always know that when I'm going when I'm doing an audit or a strategy for them. And I know that if they're not marketers themselves, which happens, obviously more often than not, otherwise they wouldn't really need our help. I encourage and welcome experiments and the fact that you have to try something and see how it works. And I think that's another change in the culture. When it comes to marketing. You feel you're an expert. If you say to somebody, if you post this specific email once a week for the next three weeks, you're going to see results. And unless literally you have you know crystal ball, sometimes social especially but in general, you don't know how it's going to work unless you have a big track record. If you're trying something new you need to be open to experiment and so we my clients always give us options to try and then I always educate them on the idea of experiments you know, this thing, moolah to see if it works or if it doesn't some things that we know work we can keep on doing them until they stop working. But if there's something new, I welcome it as a process. And as a shifting culture. When it comes to marketing, you're not less of an expert, if you share with your clients with your customers, to try something or to do something and to learn from it, instead of constantly promising results and putting the pressure on yourself to promising results, when you genuinely don't know how that's going to work. I don't know if I'm making sense, but from a marketer to
Finola Howard
know, because you're you're giving again, people permission to not know, even when you're the expert. And the reason you don't know, even when you're the expert is the world moves. And we just spent the start of this conversation, talking about how all of these changes have happened, how we as human beings are changing. So also human beings are getting more used to certain techniques, so they don't actually work anymore. So we have to experiment, we have to break new ground,
Fab Giovanetti
you have to create it very well. And I just wanted to, I wanted to make a clear, because I know again, for our students as well, whenever I talk about experimenting for clients, especially this, they start getting very rigid the light bulb, then they're not going to think I know what I'm doing. It's like, well, if you always knew that everything will bring results. I mean, I will pay you tells him that 1000s Because as soon as you tell me to do one thing, and he works, and he gets me 1000s of people to my door, that's amazing. But the world changes, the world moves, your audience changes, their needs change. And then you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. So what's next for the school? See, I got there in the end, but I wanted to put put this out as well, because there are marketers in the room. That's I think, something we didn't talk about enough. The main thing is honestly, consolidation. So this this second half of the year, May, the whole year has been a bit of experimentation, where many consolidation, we have what what we currently have, we're only going to add something slightly new to our roster, which is an accelerator that is coming out at the end of the year, which I'm really excited about when it comes to the live learning. But overall, we are stepping more into the fact that we are a school. So when you go and look into check us out, obviously, we have our podcasts and all these things are gonna say the same, but the look of it, the feeling the experience of the school, I still want it to feel like a school, but it's going to be super fun and promise is engaging by science, everything, the feeling of the learning is going to be the same because that's what makes us different, and what people love and our students come back for. But I feel, and small business owners might relate with this, we were talking to our audience in a way that you would do if you were talking to an intrapreneur. And I appreciate that. But it's a very different message in the US showing up as a school there knows that we have the quality of training and people and experience to be like, we want to teach you something when I give you this not just for you to use for your own SEO strategy, but to go out there, and then replicate it again and again. So I really want to step into, we are alternative. But it doesn't mean that we're not credible as a school is not just an individual just teaching you a couple of things and experts. I want to create this collective of experts, which we've been doing for the past couple of years. And making big so that I can be obviously the head teacher, the voice that brings it all together. But it's not just about me. So I think that's the consolidation, that we're looking for simplifying and streamlining the focus,
Finola Howard
when but that's also growth because you're growing beyond you you're growing beyond your your are getting that harvest of everything that you tried like this, the same of any business that's being that's being developed, you have to do this experimentation stage. And then you have to harvest too often people are focused on innovating the venue to innovate, and never harvesting the great work that they've actually already accomplished. Yeah, I like that. If I was to ask you, and Bravo because I love the work that you're doing. I think it's like I really love it because we need this voice in the marketplace that where marketers could be proud of being a marketer, where we could market to human beings with hearts with purpose, and to have impact and have results. So I love that we've had the opportunity to have this conversation to actually state that, and that it's now being taught by your school, and not, you know, not out of date, like and it's moving. And if I was to ask you, what would you like to leave people with today? What is your parting message to listeners in their own business? Or even as a marketer? What would you like to leave them with today?
Fab Giovanetti
Their closing of every podcast episode we do and even any of the live classes that we do, like short classes and workshop is, as always be kind to yourself and others that say, I don't know if you need to hear it today. But if you're being kind to yourself, brownie points, and they look at yourself and be am I being kind to others, but especially Emma being kind to yourself today.
Finola Howard
Thank you for that. Actually, that's a beautiful sentiment to leave people with. We don't hear it enough. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much for spin that joy. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you'd like to find out more about fab, then connect with her on LinkedIn and check out all marketing school.com That's al T marketing school.com For more info cremation, about this groundbreaking Marketing School. And if you'd like to support the show, please follow or subscribe on your chosen platform makes all the difference to the impact I'd love to make with this podcast and to have on the world, deeper conversations that allow us to grow to celebrate each other's truths. And to know that there are many who are working with a greater purpose in the world. See you again next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
