Sonya Lennon
Male power isn't working, you know, it's just not working. And if we want to save our societies and save our planet, we need to get the women around the table with the men working together to create new solutions.
Finola Howard
That's Sonya Lennon, designer, businesswoman, social entrepreneur, and much sought after speaker. She is a woman with a powerful voice that she continues to flex as a muscle for change. And I've been a fan of Sonya since I first saw her on off the rails so many years ago, and then watched as she evolved into the much love design partnership that she has with Brandon Courtney, and a voice for change with work equal and lift, calm and have a listen. I think you'll find it useful. I'm Finola Howard, intuitive marketer, your host and founder of how great marketing works. I believe that every business has a story to tell, because that's how the market decides whether to buy or not. And your story has to resonate with who you are and with the people you want to serve. And this podcast is about helping you reach the market in a way that feels right to you. So if you're an entrepreneur with a dream you want to make real, then this is the podcast for you. Because great marketing is your truth share. I have the wonderful pleasure of welcoming an inspiring female entrepreneur who is a powerful voice in Ireland and I wanted to share with you this idea of powerful female voices powerful entrepreneurial voices in our world that actually colour outside the lines of entrepreneurship. I want to you to welcome Sonya Lennon who is described as Speaker writer, a thought leader, social entrepreneur, but also one half of Courtney Lennon. Amazing. You've just won VIP favourite Irish designer 2024. Congratulations, Sonya.
Sonya Lennon
Now we're delighted. Thank you so much. Yeah, amazing.
Finola Howard
So what I want to if we could start the ball rolling of when I came across you, and I realised that I came across you with off the rails in 2008. So and also in 2008. And then you jumped in 2011 to found something called dress for success, which you now change to work equal. But can you share with us the story of how of this entrepreneurship story that seems to have branched off into a bigger picture and a bigger voice? And I find that very inspiring?
Sonya Lennon
Door? I mean, the time queue for your lovely words. For starters, I think, when I look at the arc of what I've done, it has been on a sort of a track of democratisation. So when I started my career, I was a high end fashion stylist, shooting fashion editorials at fashion campaigns, music videos,
Finola Howard
really
Sonya Lennon
expensive commercials, I remember at one point, being dispatched to London, with 25,000 Pound sterling in my pocket to go and buy costumes for a mega ad that had and it was very fashion. So and that was that was the world I was in and found myself on private jets go into music festivals, flying to the Caribbean to Miami doing shoots. I had the best time it was amazing. And I loved what I did. But it was very high end, I suppose. And this is before I had kids, I took my self very seriously. You know, I haven't had the corners knocked off me at that point. And then in 2008, I had already been a contributor to off the rails, I suppose. And head to toe before that for those old enough to remember. And when they came knocking in 2008, and said, Do you want to screen test to present the show? I thought well, you know, I don't do makeovers. I'm a fashion stylist, like why on earth would I do that? You know? And I really thought it was ridiculous idea. And they were very insistent. It took about three months of back and forth and I went in to do a screen test. And I suppose the what happened in my thinking at that point was that I said to myself, well, you know, I'm not sure this is a good idea. And the risk is big. Because I've spent 20 years building up a portfolio of clients. I'm very good at my job. I have a superb reputation. I've built the income a lovely lifestyle. And if I jump ship and go and join RTE to present after hours, that'd be a full time I'm gig at the thread between me and the previous work world can very easily be broken. And, and that's a risk I'm going to have to take. And I suppose that was the first time in my life that I ever sort of did something that challenged me. And to lean into sort of a courageous action.
Finola Howard
Can I just ask you? What? So what made you then take that leap? Because a lot of how businesses grow is always about the courageous action and actually moving out of the comfort zone, what made you feel safe to take the courageous action? Or have I interrupted you telling us that anyway?
Sonya Lennon
Yeah, no, it's quite mathematical to be honest with you for now. But I kind of looked at it. And I said, Okay. And the national broadcaster has come to me and asked me to present one of their pillar shows, Primetime viewing huge audience reach. And I believe in my own ability to do the job that was not in question, I know, I can do this very well. And Natural Born show off, that'd be fine. And the risk was all around the business, the risk was all around what I could lose if I did it. And then I thought to myself, statistically, the chances of this opportunity or one like it's coming back around again, if I say no, or pretty much zero. So it's incumbent on me to take this opportunity. And worst case scenario, if I hated, I can walk away and pick up the pieces. And what happened, actually, was that that was 2008. So I joined RTE on contract. And literally as I stepped off, one landmass of the world of advertising onto the landmass of the national broadcaster and state services, and advertising stuck globally because of the crash. And so if I had stayed where I was, I don't know what would have happened, all of my earning power would have been decimated. And so you just don't know You don't know. And you don't know when you're making these decisions. And there's a certain and amount of information that you can process based on what you know, and on data. And then there's other stuff floating outside that that you don't know. And so I've kind of come up with the personal philosophy that fear is not really unless it's fear of physical, you know, and whatever you might do might actually hurt you or kill you. And fear of change is not a good reasons not to do something, because you don't know what else is out there, that's going to impact on you,
Finola Howard
did you think about where it would lead to then or just that this was a good next move, I
Sonya Lennon
didn't think about where it would lead me to at all, I just felt that there was an opportunity. It was an evolution, and it was newness, and other things would happen. If it worked. I didn't know what those other things were. But you knew there would be something, you kind of have a ghost, right? So you're saying yes to becoming a broadcaster. So what you probably know is that your profile is going to increase your recognition, hopefully, trust, hopefully, public perception will be in favour. And you'll build a new reputation. And actually, a story that I tell frequently is that the other big fear so I have two big fears going into the first was that I was going to lose my my, my revenue. And the second was that I was going to lose my reputation because I really valued that. And I was really concerned that I was going to be remodelled into some sort of, you know, frivolous, superficial, fashion, head on TV makeover person and something that, you know, and believe me, I owe makeovers so much, I doubt you know, I'm not thinking like that anymore. But it was that risks that you were going to lose your professional gravitas, which I'd worked so hard to get. And so when I went in to RTE, they had booked me, immediate trainer. And he took one look at me. And he took one look at my series producer who had handed me over to him. He said to me, can you just can you just give me just a second with your series? I said, yes, they can. And then we went into the training room. And he said, So do you mind telling me what the problem is here? And my cousin looked at him and I was like, What? What are you talking about? And he said, Well, everything in your body language is telling me that you don't want to be here. So what's going on? He said, I had a chat with your I said, I said, I'll get I'll tell you what's going on. I said I'm really concerned that I'm going to be minimised professionally, by taking this role that I that everything that I hold dear about my professional reputation is going to be tarnished, and I'm gonna see be seen as lesser. He said, I had a chat with your series producer there and I asked her one question. I said, what idea do you have in store for Sonya for who she's going to be on screen? And she shrugged her shoulders and she said, I have no idea. So he said, whatever it is that you want to be on screen that aligns with your professional values. Just do it. Nobody's standing in your way. way. And that was a real moment where I thought, oh my god, I have put this and baggage in my head that doesn't even exist. And I think we're all guilty of that of making assumptions about other people's judgments or, or expectations of us, when really, other people are all hard to come consumed in their sales to even give any brainspace over to us. So I think that was a real lesson as well. But you thought, okay, you know, sometimes you'll be embarking in future truths, where you're telling stories that that you will grow into, and that's okay, as an entrepreneur, we have to tell the story of what's coming down the track, not where we are. And, but but the choices of how we represent ourselves are ours,
Finola Howard
love that he was a gift, then like was that unusual to have somebody like that, or give you that gift of you can be whatever you want to be here like that seems very clued in.
Sonya Lennon
Yeah, he's an extraordinarily intuitive man, his name is Paul mus. amidase. And he is honestly he's, he's, he's a brilliant, brilliant man. And I've recommended him to so many people, since then. And even you know, when I think about my catchphrases, words matter, I believe that all the words that we use matter and affect not only our external environment, but how our mind processes, we build those narratives ourselves, we have to be very careful with the stories that we tell ourselves because our subconscious brain will hold on to them. And give us proof that, you know, oh, you said you can't do it. Yeah, you're right. I'm going to show you that over there. The proves you can't do it. I'm going to make that happen over there that proves he can't do we need to manage those stories. And for it to get a bit sciency it's called the reticular. Activation. Yeah, like it's, it's, it's, it's really important. So he was a gift, he absolutely was a gift at that point, when
Finola Howard
you speak. And even when I read about you, it seems very, you speak about data a lot and science and the, the calculation of something that goes ahead, how much of you is, and for a creative? And a designer? It's interesting to hear that language, like how much of you is and you even said this recently, which was carving out blank space is so important for creativity. I'm interested in this idea of data and science versus creative part of you, are you both?
Sonya Lennon
Yeah, I am actually I am. I am a nerd. Like I just I love research. And I love data I love back to because I'm particularly when, you know, part of my world is in advocacy for gender equity. And I could go in there and I can I can say loads of stuff from my heart on myself. And that I believe to be true. But it's only when you speak in irrefutable fact and impact that everybody has the opportunity to take something out of it, you know. And so that's become very woven into, into how I communicate. And I actually think that one of the things that I probably do quite well is to take complicated stuff, and simplify it and make it accessible. So yeah, explain
Finola Howard
to me the move then to see. So you made this big move, and you went into into TV. And then you started this other initiative, which at the time was dressed for success, and has now been branded work equal, which I know is indicative of where you are now. But that was 2011. Just three years later,
Sonya Lennon
I suppose this is this is the track of democratisation. So you take the sort of high end fashion model world music bomb does a lot of that. And then you democratise it through TV, and you show women who everybody can relate to. And suddenly feeling fabulous. They've done 90% of the work on themselves to get there. But we were able to then create a catalyst to let them fly. So that was, that was amazing. And I suppose for me, I kind of thought, wow, this is actually much more impactful than putting somebody in a designer frock. And the pages of a magazine like this is actually making people feel empowered. And that was definitely a huge turning point for me. And that coupled with the fact that organisations were reaching out to me and saying, Oh, your MC, this, would it be an ambassador for that all nonprofits? You know, we'd love you to take heart and speak and use your voice and your newfound profile to tell the story of X, Y and Zed and I thought, Well, I do actually want to use that profile for good for social impact. But I want to do it intentionally and I want to do it for something that really means a lot to me. And then I was kind of possibly aware and open to opportunities and I read about dress for success which was Born in New York, oh gosh, I must be 25 years ago now something but, um, when I read about what they did, it was a kind of a coalescence of everything that I had come to know. So it was using clothes to make people feel empowered to make, I knew how to do that. It was using your network and your privilege and your voice to amplify that. Yep, I could do that. And, and I suppose being passionate about something, and it really means something to you, and my mom, who unfortunately is now very progressive dementia, used to always say to me, you know, a man isn't not a plan, always have, you're running away money, if you're not part of the revenue, you're not part of the solution, you're not part of the decision making. She was, you know, an ace role model for autonomy, and agency, and self actualization, you know, and those are the things that I believe in. And I know that unless we have money, we can't make those choices, or we're stuck. And so dress for success at the time network equals an opportunity to, to use the circular economy before anybody was talking about it's a nice recycle unwanted clothes, to people who needed them to present an interview. And in so doing, create that catalyst where suddenly people could move into sustainable careers, continued professional development, change the narrative for the next generation, become independent, feel valued in society. And now more than ever, 12 years later, 13 years later, that's vital, because it is missing. And though we are nominally at full employment, there are huge cohorts and swathes of our society, who feel valueless, who feel forgotten and left behind. And we're working now to nationalise work equal to put our arms around those people and say, Come on, we'll help you, we'll help you get the job, and not just our job, the job that can move you out of whatever situation you're in and move you towards a better life and the sustainable life.
Finola Howard
Tell me when did you realise that she actually had a powerful voice for change, because that's like, that seems to be your voice is very loud now. And it's there is, but I mean, that is a compliment to you that because you've moved into diversity, equality, inclusion into this space, which is a really important place also. But this realisation because some of the stuff that I've read about you and heard you speak about is about not realising our brilliance as women, not using our voices, you know, asking for like declaring our ambition so that then perhaps the universe can align or the opportunities can align themselves, to share with me how you moved. And maybe you always had that, because there are quiet voices, quiet female entrepreneurs out there that are looking for permission to speak up, and I would love you to use some space here, to encourage them or inspire them or do your lovely, friendly, disruptive nature to kick them to encourage us all to have this powerful voice.
Sonya Lennon
Yeah, I guess, I guess it grows, you know, it's, it's a muscle in itself, that voice and your stars, I mean, you know, you say a few things. And then a few people listen, and maybe people tell you, I got something from that. And then maybe, you know, you kind of find yourself in in a room with C suite people, and you're changing their minds about how they view and gender equity in the workplace. And then maybe you find your self in a room with a minister and another minister, and then you find yourself sitting with the global leader, and then you know, so it's, it's, it's a bit like, you know, it's a bit like Instagram fame, you have, you have to build a foundation, it has to matter, it has to be authentic, and you have to put the work in. And, and, and I think there is a sort of a responsibility on us as people of privilege to weaponize that privilege for the benefit of others. So, you know, and when I talk, I, I talk in all I try and talk in all directions. So the clients that we have in work equal and could equally be, you know, customers of Landon, Courtney or listeners to our podcast or whatever it might be, and, but if they're coming to work equal, they have a need, they have an actual need. And we have a sort of a philosophy in in the organisation that we meet everybody where they are. We meet them with respect, we meet them with kindness and we meet them with joy. Never had tilt in that organisation. Never pity Never a sense of superiority, it just there's no room for us. And because we don't know, we don't know other people's stories, and we don't know what they've been through, they come through those doors. And, you know, I can tell you now they tell us what their stories are, and their stories are incredible. But it could be anybody walking through that door, anybody. And then I think as you as you, you move the arc of that, you know, voice and storytelling up, and you find yourself talking to women who love good jobs, and who are economically secure. And they're also really struggling. They're struggling with, you know, moded policies, and, you know, leaders who stay great stuff, but don't do great stuff, and social mores that hold women back. And I cannot tell you, I have lost count of the amount of women who have come to me and said, I really wish I didn't spend the first 10 years of my career waiting for somebody to notice how brilliant I am. You know, and we have a responsibility to find our voice in a way that's appropriate for us. That can help us to surface how good we are at what we do. And that can help us to ask for supports, and without scaring the horses. And this is the challenge that we face. And I'm not happy about this in one sense that we have to couch our message. And to make it accessible, we have to tell our message in a way that doesn't threaten the incumbent power base. That doesn't scare the horses, you know. And that's the challenge, because you want to have and the way the world is turning right now I'm actually quite scared about the rise of the right I'm quite scared about the erosion of women's rights. I'm scared about the loss of body autonomy around the world. I'm scared for for my daughter and my son. I'm scared for the next generation. I don't mean to be alarmist, but we're not in a good situation right now. You know? And so it's getting to a stage where you think, Oh, could I be arsed to count this uncomfortable language anymore? You know, do I have the Do I have the gumption to do that when what I want to do is to scream from the rooftops, we need female power in the room. Now male power isn't working. You know, it's just not working. And if we want to save our societies and save our planet, we need to get the women around the table with the men working together to create new solutions.
Finola Howard
So here's what's interesting to me is we've known this for a long time we've known this, since you were doing off the rails. We know this a long time. It's it's even boring, you know, this conversation about the power of women, the impact of women, and all of the lip service that goes along with change in corporates and all the rest of it. Why hasn't it changed?
Sonya Lennon
And it hasn't changed because I believe that the men are frightened. They're frightened of, obviously, zero sum game. And they're frightened of being made redundant. They're frightened of losing squash for, you know, centuries has been their birthright. And I think that's part of the problem. And part of the challenge in telling this story is, you know, to talk about the opportunity, and for all of us and beyond business in society, and for for new ways of thinking that free men from the tyranny of that the expectation of men in our society to be chests, comping and alphas, you know, and like I was reading, rereading, I've read it about a God knows how many times there's a Deloitte as a couple of Deloitte reports on covering the workplace 45 out of I think three and a half 1000 respondents 45% of white men cover in the workplace, and they cover in the access of being afraid to share their challenges, in case they're laughed out of dodge, because what have you got to complain about your white man? Right, and they're covering on the axis of advocacy and Ally ship, because they don't, they're afraid to overstep the mark and cause offence get cancelled mansplain they are rudderless. They're rudderless. Even the good ones don't know what to do, let me just ask and there are more good ones and bad ones.
Finola Howard
What do you mean by covering as in hiding? Covering? Yeah,
Sonya Lennon
covering is a term which explains the concept of not being able to be your true and whole self at work. Okay, so, so you subsume elements of yourself to fit in, to, to fit in, to not cause offence, to not draw attention to your difference and to progress in the workplace,
Finola Howard
what women have been doing for years,
Sonya Lennon
for years, what the LGBT community have been doing, what black people have been doing for years being less themselves to fit in
Finola Howard
and see this, it's kind of interesting, because it's still boring. You know what I mean? It's sorry? No, but it's still boring. Why?
Sonya Lennon
Why is this not being learned, like, and I get that they're afraid. And we don't understand the place where, for men in society, they don't understand. But it's, it's these are the same conversations. I'm writing a book at the moment, which is called works not working. And I'm pulling together all of the research that tells us in the simplest terms for why we have to change the way we're doing everything from the perspective of the employee, and the employer. Because everything from the history of the workplace has been a power play between both of those cohorts. And we have to grow the fuck up and act as humans, and get over ourselves. And start to be honest, I'm sure you've read, I'm co founder of left Ireland, left Ireland is a movement, which is sweeping across Ireland at the moment, 100,000 people have been through the process. Through the left Ireland process, we give people the tools to understand the characteristics of good leadership, personal leadership, we are all leaders, we lead ourselves every day. So even if you're allergic to the word leader, you are more sorry, if you influence each other, have you influenced somebody else through your words and actions, you're a leader, not saying you're a good one, or a bad one, or a mediocre one or whatever. We lead ourselves every day, and we lead others through what we do. And with lift Ireland, we have a roundtable process, which allows us to understand what the characteristics of good leadership are the really foundational, few main characters of good leadership. And the way that we found those characteristics was we went out and did two omnibus surveys with the Irish people, nationally representative, and said, What are the characteristics of leadership that need to be improved in this country. And we came back with or they came back, the Irish public came back with characteristics and values like honesty and integrity, and listening, competence, accountability, respect, and all the good stuff that honestly, maybe the Church used to teach us that maybe our parents used to teach us that maybe school used to teach us that. But it has fallen off the curriculum of life in a way, for very obvious reasons people turn for the church, for obvious reasons. Parents are unbelievably busy. And so you have two working parents who are hustling through the day, to pay for an extraordinary cost of living and coming home to children who and they're all shattered, and everybody's racked up, do you really want to sit down and have a fundamental discussion about what it is like what it is like to be respectful, because that's going to take another load of psychological toll on you after a long day at work, nobody has the capacity. And I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be doing that, of course, that's part of a parent's role to do that. But we need support. And we need to we need to retrofit those bodies back into how we are as a society. And and what we've seen out of that process and that movement is extraordinary, you know, 98% of people who go through the process, report a better understanding of what leadership is. And 84% report positive behaviour change. And behaviour change is one of the hardest things to do in this world. And but everything that we do in the roundtable process is grounded into behavioural science. Every step of the process is there for a reason. We read a text we talk about what bit of the text stood out to us. Why did it stand out to us? How did we live respect in the last 2446 hours?
Finola Howard
The interesting question for you over 15 year old son and so he's in the obviously in the schooling system, and have has had mixed experiences of that. And this term, respect it Is, is triggering for him. Right? And they understand, because there is a perspective of respect as a term, as an idea is something that's used to make somebody do what you want them to do. Because you know, you can't you can't talk back to me you can't ask questions, because that's disrespectful. Because I have a son who asks questions, because I love questions. We talk to each other in this way. We're trying to find out things. But our systems and our communities and our schooling system and our educational system at that age group doesn't encourage or believe those ideas. So
Sonya Lennon
what I would say to you, is that respect in that way, in that authoritative way, is not really respect. Right? He's right, he's absolutely right. And I would say that in our schooling system, we have over 320 schools who are rolling out the lift roundtable process in secondary school. And so I think, unfortunately, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do an analysis on your situation, it comes down to an individual who is behaving in a certain way, and whose understanding of respect is maybe not what it should be, and Respect is earned. It can't just be asked for it is earned. And it is earned by being mutually respectful of each other, and being respectful of yourself. So it's all of those things. And we've seen extraordinary results with the schools who are running the roundtables. And by the way, the classes are running up themselves. So we trained facilitators, to run these sometimes there are teachers running with teacher cohorts, mainly their students running it with student cohorts. And so it's peer learning. And and I love your son actually to come on, we do the roundtables free. And through the lift website, you can book in and do one, I'd love your son to do a respect roundtable because he would get it that he would get what respect actually is. And the way he is being exposed to respect is not respect
Finola Howard
what i've what I would say to you is, he's a very smart, and empathetic young man. And I think I think he knows what it is. But yeah, I totally accept that invitation. Yeah, I will raise it with him and see if he's open to it, which I'm sure he is. But it's it's such an interesting space that we're in, I feel even speaking to you, this is world changing, life changing stuff that's happening, that's that is necessary that's happening. But you're you've you found ways in with everything that's going on with the right with everything that is going on in the world, and all the changes that are just going through. And I mean, what an amazing country we have, and all of the things we've accomplished in more recent years that are game changing and inspiring to other countries. But still, obviously, there's more to be done. Again, that brings me back to this idea of the power of your voice that how that has grown. And I'm getting inspired by this idea that we should all have a voice like this.
Sonya Lennon
I've just finished reading an extraordinary book by Elizabeth Lasser called Cassandra speaks. And what she does in that book, I don't know if you've come across it is she basically analyses our modern culture, through the lens of social storytelling, all the way back to the Greeks and the Romans and how how male it is. She she puts a call out to put the call out to women everywhere to find their voice. But she also she does a really interesting thing where she says become personally aware don't become the word least come personally aware of the amount of war analogies that permeate our language. You know, everything from battling cancer to frontline workers to no holds barred being a Greco Roman wrestling term about you can kill them if you want to, no holds barred, do whatever you want. And, and she says that if we want to really talk about and positive and constructive things in our society, we should be using analogies of of, you know, the kitchen and the the carpentry workshop, where people make things not destroy them. And, and it's a fantastic call to action. I mean, I was laughing with my friend yesterday. We said I told her about this. We tripped each other up about six times within an hour ago. war analogy, war analogy, you know, and we're We're hardwired socially, to think in those terms, and they're not helpful. We kind of have to deconstruct them.
Finola Howard
I wonder, what is the language or the lexicon we've lost? Like, historically, you know, women had a strong voice in Ireland, you know, from Celtic lore and all of that. I wonder what language and what lexicon has been lost to us that perhaps should be introduced?
Sonya Lennon
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's a travesty, really, you know, and it's also, it's also the voice of creation, and the earth, and I'm sorry, to get all woowoo on it now, but like, we, when we launched with Hill County, designed and coordinate, we passionately baked those pagan sort of rituals and, and a reconnection back into the earth, which is feminine, you know, and, and warm like and, and unintuitive. And, and that's what we need to find, again, and I'm constantly aware that, you know, we are, our current way of living is, is a tiny blip of missed misunderstanding, in human evolution, we don't have a clue what we're doing, you know, in 10 years time, we will definitely look back and say, You gave the phone to the kids, you gave the smartphone to the kid, really, you know, I mean, we'll be mortified by what we did, I've no doubt about that. The next generation coming up, and many of them, you know, they're smart, they know what they have to do. They're disconnecting from the phones, they're seeing it as a tyranny, you know, and there will be a pendulum swing, and we have no choice but to embrace respect for the earth. As, as somebody said, to me, recently, the earth needs a really good lawyer, you know, we need to we need to rethink how we're engaging with everything. And, and that's where I think that real strong requirements for female energy around the table is vital. Can
Finola Howard
I ask you another question? Because I hear this a lot. This this language of, you know, you know, empowering women and feminine energy and groundedness, and nature and nurture, and all that good stuff. Every time it's raised, it's raised in the context of, I'm sorry, if I'm going to go a bit woowoo on you now. And I'm kind of raising it just to notice it. Because yeah, I don't understand why we have to apologise for that. And what does that work? Absolutely. Right. So yeah, we're, we're even, you're speaking about diversity, equality, inclusion, then surely that includes feminine power, masculine power, or whatever that is, and and that different energy and that balance of energies, what we're looking for. Yeah, and
Sonya Lennon
you're absolutely right. And I suppose that I spoke, spoke earlier about coaching, and, you know, telling stories and sharing messages in a way that won't alienate people. And I think that's where that comes from. And you're right, it is right to challenge it, because what I was saying was probably acceptable without without the couching, you know, and completely. Yeah. Yeah.
Finola Howard
It's, I hear it all the time. And it's, and we have to shift that language so that both, and also even this thing of, and I know, you said this before, because you really support, as you said earlier about men as well. But just there's lots of networks that are just female led entrepreneurship and networks. And all the time we're missing, that's 50% of the population you're missing if you're only doing business with men with women.
Sonya Lennon
Yeah. I mean, I've really strong feelings about that. And, you know, I will Oh, if I'm, if I'm invited, I will always ask, I don't always get what I'm always asked, Can we please extend? I mean, particularly if it's an internal organisational meeting, I'll say, the best way to do this is to invoke ask everybody to invite a male ally with them, you know, and at least because you're not going to, you're not going to change the minds of the people who are the naysayers, but you can empower and reinforce the message with the the allies and the advocates. And, and even I have a very strong feeling about identity named employee resource groups. I don't think it's helpful. I think, you know, if you call something the LGBT network, or the pride network, when you call something the Women's Network, by definition, you're putting a ring fence around it and saying, you know, only these. Yeah, yeah. And even if you're not, even if you're even if in your memo and arts say we're the Women's Network, and everybody's welcome. Everybody might know that, you know what I mean? So, for me, I've always had this idea that we should look at it as creating an umbrella organisation within our organisations, which is the cultural change committee, right. So this is this is the committee regardless of identity that are going to be The board that are going to change everything and underneath that you can have identity representative groups that feed into that overall committee. And because I do think it's important to acknowledge that some people need somewhere to belong, if they are in the minority or under a century, so a safe space, right, so so that's okay. But they should feed into an overall body that represents everybody. And and I think if you go back to that stat a 45% of white men are covering it works. They're shuffling from one foot to the other go and I don't know where to put myself. So we're, you know, how do we how do we bring everybody it's only it's only inclusive, and, and, and fulsome if everybody feels like they have a right to blah. Yeah.
Finola Howard
Beautiful. What would you like to leave people with today, Sunday.
Sonya Lennon
So we started by saying, it was the mission was to maybe empower people to find their voice. And, and so I think an exercise over one day, where you take a notebook everywhere you go, and you write down the stories, that you're telling yourself, nevermind the ones that actually leave your mouth, what are the stories that you're telling yourself? And, and that's the challenge, spend one day mapping the narratives. And, and, and then make a conscious effort, if you're not happy with them to change. And because I promise you your subconscious will feed you exactly what you tell it to feed you. That
Finola Howard
is fact. And that will help us help us become much more conscious of stuff. Like we miss things in that first day. But yeah, I love that exercise. Thank you so much, Sania. It's been a powerful conversation as I expected it would be
Sonya Lennon
and thank you for for your questions and your engagement. It was really wonderful.
Finola Howard
I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you'd like to find out more about Sonya, then connect with her on LinkedIn, and check out Sonya lennon.com and also llenan coordinator COMM And if you'd like to support the show, please follow or subscribe on your chosen platform. It makes all the difference to the impact. I'd love this podcast to have on the world. deeper conversations that allow us to grow to celebrate each other's truths. And to know that there are many who are working with greater purpose in the world. See you next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
