Karen McCarthy 0:00
come to terms with the fact that you may not get the likes or the comments that you think you should, but you'll get the sales that you want. So there's a real perspective shift when you realize you're playing the wrong game playing all the time, they go through a process of at the start going, Oh, God, I've put out that piece but because like three likes or something, that's fine, keep going. And then they eventually say, Oh, my God, I doubled my sales. That's Karen McCarthy, social media marketing coach dedicated to helping you leverage social media to get sales for your business. I asked Karen to join me today because I wanted to bring awareness to this tendency towards social media that's preoccupied with the wrong metrics. Karen Grounds this conversation by focusing on the buyer journey, and how you can create posts that match where your customers are on that journey to increase your sales, let go of the vanity metrics and replace them with what she calls the sanity metrics.
Finola Howard 0:50
I'm Finola Howard, intuitive marketer, your host and founder of how great marketing works, I believe that every business has a story to tell, because that's how the market decides whether to buy or not. And your story has to resonate with who you are, and with the people you want to serve. And this podcast is about helping you reach the market in a way that feels right to you. So if you're an entrepreneur with a dream you want to make real, then this is the podcast for you. Because great marketing is your truth share.
Today, I wanted to focus on something that would be really pragmatic for everyone. And it's something that is really key to growing your business, increasing our conversion rates, all of that really good stuff that we think about in terms of marketing. And I needed to find somebody that would be pragmatic about that. And only one name came to mind all of the time. And that was the lovely Karen McCarthy from simplified social media. And what Karen does is well, really quickly, what she does is she shows you how to leverage social media to get sales. So this is not about engagement. It's not about vanity metrics, which she's going to talk to you about. It's about getting the sales, while still being true to your own values. Welcome, Karen McCarthy.
Karen McCarthy 2:16
Well, thank you so much for the lovely introduction of delighted to be here.
Finola Howard 2:20
Yay. Well, you've been on my mind for a while because I we've known each other for a while, but I always watch what you're doing. Because it's so pragmatic. And it's so real. And there's no fluff in here. Which I think is really important when we're trying to grow our business because when you smell the fluff, you got to run you know. So, okay, so what I want to do is, like me you are your background is in marketing, you studied marketing, and but what's interesting, were I always loved marketing, which you now love marketing, I'm hoping, but when you were studying marketing, you said you had no intention of using it once you qualify. I know
Karen McCarthy 3:03
if I if my ex Professor hears me, he'll be so disappointed. Yeah, so I do marketing. I kind of got into marketing very much by accident. I wanted to be a writer and a singer. And I had a career guidance teacher tell me Well, the best thing to do is do marketing, which for some reason was logical elicit, okay, I went into marketing and I did a five year degree, which was a long enough degree. And I just hated I really found up yeah, there's, I found like, it was teaching us how to manipulate people into buying things they didn't need. And I was just like, this is all what I signed up for. I don't I don't see the gap as to how I can get into something more creative with this. And I just felt like I was spending so much time doing really heavy subjects like financial accounting and management, science and statistics, I had zero interest in any of that stuff as well. The only subjects I kinda liked where I did French with it, and I loved French. And I went to France with it and all the rest, but um, I just saw I couldn't see myself in it. And I felt like it was just the wrong side of business that I wanted to be in. If I even wanted to be in business, even if I wanted to be in business. I really just wanted to do something creative and write and do that kind of stuff. And I couldn't see it and I felt like I was being just forced into this role of manipulation. That felt wrong for me. And I just was I almost quit numerous times throughout the degree. Because I did it in such a way that you kind of did two years you had a diploma you didn't know the year you had this you did another year so I was just like, wait, I just need you to tell like that. It was like okay, I'll just do one more year. I'll just do one more year. And I kind of stuck with it. I was just like literally as soon as I finished was like let's burn the books and run. We don't need this anymore.
Finola Howard 4:48
So what did you do next after that, but it's funny, actually. Just to come back to it. I never felt that I felt parts of it were a little bit a I think it brought my awareness to why people do things I never felt it was made emulation, I felt the manipulation piece was a choice.
Karen McCarthy 5:07
Yeah, yeah, I think I think I didn't see that till later years. And there was like, if I separated, there was parts of the degree, like we did behavioral side to communications, which I liked that on its own. But my problem was, let's take this really interesting subject and then we'll make people now we can trick them into this there was you know, maybe we just the way that I was picking it up, or whatever way it just was like, No, I don't I don't see I couldn't see myself in it. And I just couldn't and maybe it's well because I've gotten into it with the idea of turning it into something creative. I just couldn't see the collection. I just thought no, I just need to try something totally different altogether. Now.
Finola Howard 5:43
I think it scares creative people too as well. I studied it in the College of marketing and design which was which no longer exists but it was an experiment to bring because marketing is creative. And the College of marketing and design was a an experiment to bring business people and creative people together into the same university. And you and I always tell the story of there was one side of the of the canteen would be filled with guys and pinstripe in striped shirts, and briefcases kind of trying it out. And the other side were people in flowy row. And I was going which side Now am I on? So I always kind of was in between the two. So because it helped one. Yeah, whatever. But we all find your path in the end. But then you went to Disney. What a rare look. You know, that's kind of interesting, because that's
Karen McCarthy 6:42
a match of the two. It is yeah. And the Disney thing was was a little bit of an accidental one as well. It was a The reason I stopped through the first two years of work in gray was because there was a promise of Erasmus in the year three. I said, Great Erasmus and fantastic. That's right up my alley and go to France for the year perfect. And then they cancelled Erasmus. And last minute, I was like, what? And I said, Well, what if I just went to France myself? How would that look? And so I started looking for okay, I get a job in marketing in Paris, it can be super easy to do at the age of like, whenever I was 20 not so easy to do. And then a friend of mine who was obsessed with Disney, which I never was, but she was like, her family holidays were Disney all the way wanted to go work in Disney. So she was going to work in Disney and she'd done an interview here in Dilbert all I had missed the interviews and everything at that stage but I had I had no other option if I wanted to go to France it's gonna have to be Disney. So I went to England actually the day after 911 to do an interview for for Disney which was surreal experience in itself.
Finola Howard 7:46
How did you get a flight after 911
Karen McCarthy 7:49
Oh my goodness, it was just I think it was all like people still didn't really know what to really fully happen because it's literally the day after so the airport's like on the oversight the airports were like okay, and we had we had the flight booked already and when we got to the UK it was a bit chaotic and you know there was a lot of security we're just like what's actually I didn't I didn't know what was going on at the time it was like well yeah, there was done this random building in the middle of nowhere in London talking to some guy about it speak Irish and Spanish fire me they did and it was all very and I was still a bit like Oh god this even like the Disney side of things because Disney obviously so good at their marketing I was kind of like this feels like a bit of a cult going into this is because the you know the the induction videos they gave were very like this is the spoiling way Disney and I was like I don't know if I could do this for a year I didn't learn French boys met a few nice people the interview as well and just went with it went over it turned out to be one of the best years I've ever had. It was just amazing. But
Finola Howard 8:53
as you ran from manipulation Do you feel Disney is manipulative? Yes,
Karen McCarthy 8:57
but it's all fluffy and nice Isn't that my my my goal it is the wizard French which is probably read your thing to do to cope and learn French isn't an American corporation but I did I mess and as with most experiences is that people you meet and we were living on on site on Disney and we just met oh my god just think most incredible friends ever from all parts of the world. And everybody was there and speak to you we're always speaking friends together. So you're making friends but you know Italians Brazilians polish all the rest speaking French and I really learned French well through Disney, which was kind of mad. I just had so much fun and it was just like at that time again, it was around 911 Or that where we were just in this bubble often not knowing what was going on it was just a really nice place to be around a little tiny bit of money very badly paid but it was just you know, again, they were they it was it was interesting for me to be there somebody who had who was kind of halfway through their marketing degree and to be taken a bit seriously by people in Oh Per management because I was doing marketing. I was kind of just like doing this degree because I have to, but um, they were kind of giving me opportunities to do certain things within Disney because of that, which was interesting. But yeah, it was, it was just such a fun experience. I learned French, which was the goal. And then I kind of felt like I'd reset the button debater, to come back and do my final couple of years in the degree in Canada could Dylan
Finola Howard 10:23
amazing. And then to writing,
Karen McCarthy 10:27
yes, then on to writing. So again, again, that was always the kind of the plan afterwards. So when I when I finished off the marketing degree, and this was it was a digital marking degree, but it was pre social media, obviously, because it was 2005 when I graduated to the age. So you'll lark was still, you know, working away on his Harvard version of Facebook at that stage. But I went on to them do a couple of random jobs here and there, but got a job as a Features Editor for Sunday Tribune for a while, which I absolutely loved. And it was kind of coming towards the end of them. So they were, you know, not far from from being closed as well. They were entering into the lovely recession of 22 years of age and all that. But I got so much incredible experience there. And really just fell more and more in over the idea of writing, which then just kind of got me back into my own, always a little bit of a personal writing in that. But I really got into writing a blog then was the was the next big thing for me, that really kind of was the bridging gap between bringing it all together, the marketing, the creativity, and all of that as well. So that was the next big leap, which is by 2015. At that stage, then So 10 years after the working degree
Finola Howard 11:37
on the blog was about
Karen McCarthy 11:39
the blog was about dog friendly places in Ireland, because back in 2015, they did not exist. So that was basically me saying I want to go places with my dogs. And I also want to write so I went I did a course on them, or like sort of a workshop on writing blogs, I figured out I had learned better web development in the degree. So I created like a website for myself and was like a top dog for any places to see if we get more of them to become more dog friendly. So as going right to these places with the two dogs dorable little Pomeranians and white arms going good, we come inside. And if they let me come inside, I would write a lovely blog about how wonderful they were. And I was, you know, I wanted to take better photos for the blog. And I'd heard about this photo app that was fantastic, called Instagram. So I was like it was great filters. So I could just like put my photos through these filters. Like we'll post them publicly because like, I didn't want strangers on the internet just eat like dogs. And I was using it in almost airplane mode for the first while afraid of like, I don't know what happens when you put them up overtly, like goosies. changed. But yeah, that just was it was really started as a kind of creative project. And really blossomed from there and led me into the world of social media by using the Instagram accounts. And that really started to blow up and take off and gain traction as I kind of started figuring out how to actually use it properly as an account. What was
Finola Howard 13:07
the trigger to make you publish the posts to go off airplane mode? Because people often stay too long in that space? Yes,
Karen McCarthy 13:13
yeah. So I think I think I was just it just was by starting to see other people had done it, nothing bad happened kind of thing that was sort of looking at like, okay, there's proof there, people are doing this. Because at the time, I remember people saying, Oh God, if you put pictures up there, like you don't own them anymore, like Facebook will own them, or Instagram at the time would own them. I didn't really know what that meant or anything, obviously now it's like whatever. But I think I just kind of I wanted I saw that there was potentially what I was doing, there could be something who knows where I would go, I was following. I went to this blog workshop with somebody, it was actually a French girl in Dublin, who is the French foodie in Dublin think she still does things around food tourism that and she was somebody her kind of story was that she had made a full time income at this blog. So So I was like, maybe I could, you know, is what I could do with this at the time, I was in another job that I was really unhappy. And I I didn't really know because again, I wasn't like say, Oh, I'll go get a marketing job. Cuz I didn't want to do that. I didn't know what I wanted to do or what I could do all I wanted to do with something creative. I had no idea what that looked like. So I thought, let's see, let's do this other side and see what happens. And so yeah, it was I really learned histogram kind of from the ground up by doing it that way. And it just starts to pay in traction and grow. And I was I was sort of when I really haven't this big plan. I was like, Oh, I'm kind of doing the content writing delivered as a journalist and as a writer. And I'm also doing something in a marketing way because I'm talking about things like getting attention to things which is just the essence of marketing. And I started saying well maybe I could like, you know, pitch people the idea of like doing their writing so I could be a writer and get paid to write. So I started like randomly reaching out to people on Facebook that I saw who were not doing a great job of their content. So
Finola Howard 14:57
just a second. So you effectively cold calling them but through because so many people would be scared to do what you just what do you? Yeah? And how did you do that? How did you reach out? Did you? Did you reach out and say, like, What did you say in your DM when you were reaching out to those people?
Karen McCarthy 15:15
So I reached out. And my idea was because I at the time had no real paid experience. I was like, I'm fully willing to do it for free, just to see if it works. And if it's, you know, it's a thing. So I reached out, and a DM would just sort of, you know, very, you know, it's funny, and I kind of teach it now. And I sort of did it accidentally, then I just reached out, I was like, Hey, I saw your post on whatever the thing was, that sounds really great, you know, a little bit of conversation about no pressure. And obviously, you know, don't, it's something you don't want it to know, but you can ignore me. But I haven't experienced as a content writer, it was a journalist for a while. If you want, I could just rewrite that for you and show you how it could be like just a few just to show you a difference. They're like, Oh my God, that would be amazing. Like, if you know, you can do that. And so I just took a post they'd already done and rewrote it. And then they were like, can you do that? Again? Can we send you stuff and they were starting to you know, it was back and forth again, but like they were a new company I was. So we're both kind of just sort of feeling our way around to see what would what would happen. And one of them ended up becoming a client, then they were like, well, can we like pay you a certain amount of time every week. So I was still doing their job. And all the rest of this is just a sideline thing. And I was just trying to I was trying to figure what I was doing. They were trying to figure what they're doing. And that just continued to blossom blossom. And they just kept offering me more and more work with it. And it just kept.
Finola Howard 16:35
So how did that? Because I love when these things happen? How did that convert, like how fast that convert from? You know, because so many people offer stuff for free, they do it for too long, or they don't have a plan for how you were feeling your way. But how did you go from? I am looking at your post? How about doing it this way? And then going, I'd like to pay you or did you ask today offer? Or did you ask they actually offered? Because okay,
Karen McCarthy 17:03
how fast fairly fast? I think because I think, you know, I think I picked out the right people because they were at the very beginning stage of the business. And they didn't know what they were doing. When it came to social media. They were just putting stuff up. And I think the difference in what I did, when I gave it to them, they were just like, oh, okay, this is something we didn't even think about. So they saw the potential in it very quickly. And then they were like, Look, if we were to send you X Men to steal for this amount of money, would you be okay with that? And I was like, Yeah, whatever. Like, I'll take anything right now just for the experience of anything else. And when I was literally like, you know, you know, just on my lunch break, going and doing a few things or whatever, the weekends or evenings and just like fitting it in around around my job.
Finola Howard 17:46
And it just yeah, you you took a chance?
Karen McCarthy 17:49
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. And it was it was a very blind chance. And a lot of ways I was I was coming from a place where I had this kind of mix of experience. But I wasn't even really very logically pulling it together. I was always just kind of going for it. I was just like, I want to write you need something written? I can do it. Do you want to pay me, let's see what happens. You know, and then when I had I had this Instagram account, I had the background and writing the marketing, you know, I probably could have done it a lot better now if I don't, and I planted it properly. But it works. And it just, I needed something. And for me it was real. What I knew was I want to quit my job. But I need to pay the bills. So how do I do this? How do I like what, what can I do and I don't want to just go and swap the job I hate for another job, I hate to want to do something different. I really wanted to be self employed, but I just I had no idea what that looked like back then. So this was just the first step forward. And then you know, I kept working with them and a couple of other people and it was very much this, like I'll do your content, I'll do your content. And I was just gathering Well, you know, some clients and you know, saving as much as I possibly could. And my plan at that stage I'm very like affected by my environment. It's very kind of, you know, important to me at the time. I was just like I need a massive changing environment to figure this out because I don't know where I'm going with this or what I'm doing. So I had this dream always to go back and live in France for a while. So I decided I was going to save up enough money to give myself a six month window and just figure it out and see from there. So I had saved everybody else's home I was even hosting on Airbnb in my house. I was just doing everything I possibly could to just save save, save, save, save. And then at the like first January I was over in France in nice with my two dogs. We will have time going oh my god over here and just kept going from there. Did all the courses studied everything I possibly could even went back and studied Marketing again. Online in the Fitzwilliam Institute. I did a diploma degree in them social media and marketing because it just upgraded since I kind of had done my own degree. And I just went for it fully that I just I work well with that with just like I want a space Sound the timeframe or just go for it without the stress or the finances. So I had like, set myself up that like no matter what happens in six months, I'm good. I just that gave me the freedom to just figure age from there what way to go.
Finola Howard 20:12
So what's very interesting is because you keep speaking about the creativity part of you, but this is very methodical. Yeah. Yeah. And that's also indicative of how you work. But is goal oriented? One piece at a time, one step at a time? And just, and also, certainty, you knew it would work?
Karen McCarthy 20:31
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I feel I have that mix. Like I have that real creative side of me. But I feel like for my creative side to thrive, it needs the soil of unity and routine, and then it can thrive. And like, I need to build that up for myself.
Finola Howard 20:51
Do you think every creative needs that?
Karen McCarthy 20:54
I do? And I think it's a, it's an obstacle that they don't realize they have? Because I think you know, and I had this myself just like, oh, no, I'm creative. So I have to be spontaneous and routine is the death of creativity. But actually, it's the opposite. I have had that what a lot of clients going through as I tend to attract a lot of creative type clients. And I'm like, I'm telling you, if you get into your systems, if you get into the routine that you're fighting against so much, you will be able to be creative, your creative space for creativity. And that's what it's all about.
Finola Howard 21:21
Love it. Talk to me about your two lovely dogs. They anchor everything they do, they're the reason
Karen McCarthy 21:29
for everything. And like, don't say that lightly. Like, I mean, first of all, I don't know what I ever have come into this world of social media had not been for them. Because they were the gateway for me in it was about you know, the dog friendly places, it was putting them in front of the camera rather and myself, I learned so much to go in there. And kids, you know, I don't think I would have ever come up with it in that way. It just was my gateway into the social media world in the way that it worked for me. And I don't think I ever would have moved to France on my own at the age of 35. With them, because with them, it was like they're part of my home. So like, you know, and it's so easy when you travel with their dogs to meet people because like it's the first thing I did when I got to friends was took them out to eat. And then you meet people on the walk and you go to the local bakery people tactics, you dogs, it's so so much easier when you're on your own to do something with them. And they just made the transition so much easier for me. And they've just been Yeah, let's they're here snoring beside me there. They just are like a huge part of my business and my everything my life.
Finola Howard 22:39
Unfortunately, you lost one of them. During this. I did,
Karen McCarthy 22:41
I did, which had a very, very, very deep impact on me as well. So like it was so I've been I've been moving back and forth to France over the last couple of years, spending six months in France, six months in Ireland. And the last time we did that was 2019 Going into 2020. And so the two dogs I had were Jasmine and Roxy and they were twin sisters. And Jasmine got very sick, she had a seizure kind of rent October, November 2019, just after we drive to France. So it was really hard. We're just like, you know, dealing with, you know, true friends trying to figure out all the medical stuff and all that and I really was just like, I think I just need us to get us back home at this stage and figure out what's going on with her. Then of course, pandemic was about two years. So we got back home. I think it was maybe two or three weeks before the pandemic for like lockdown hit. And she passed away like three days after we got home. And I was just thrown into a world of grief which was then compounded by the lockdown and everything else. I'd also just launched my first one to one program and I had loads of clients in the container and I was just absolutely in the throes of grief and it was just such an incredibly hard period so well you know everyone else it seems like everyone else I meet these days is like Oh yeah 2020 was the year I started my business and brew and it for me it was the year I stood still stood still for at least two years after and luckily I had built up so much of my business that I could do that. And I I was so grateful that like you know I had just launched that program so I had loads of clients and who are just the nicest people as well and they completely understood and they were just say that I was able to take a bit of time off and they were fine with it and I was so grateful to the business for that and to be able to kind of kind of coast in a way that I was like yes I was you know posting some content and I was getting clients and all the rest but I wasn't in any way accelerating the business or growing it. I was just like I just need this to support me right now while I get through this time because you know, I mean for everyone 2020 was just a nightmare and there was so much going on but like I was living on my own with Roxy through the grief knotting so pretty much weekly at that stage really hard. So I think it really impacted me for Good two years at least, where I just was like, I didn't have it in me to grow to sort of look, you know, like, as an entrepreneur, you're creative, and you're thinking about the next thing. And I was just like, I just cannot even hold that space, I just need to maintain what I'm doing. So like the plan had been when I launched the group, there was one program in December, January 2019 2020. And the plan was, within six months turned into a group program. And I've only turned into a group program and completely revamped it in the last year, it took me that long to be ready to do that, because I just was like, I just don't have the mental capacity for it. Well,
Finola Howard 25:35
what was interesting when we chatted and sad, actually, was this kind of understanding. Lots of people have not understanding what it's like to lose a dog or a pet that's really important to you, like you told me a story of people reaching out to you and saying, when they had to go back to work, like they couldn't take any time off, because they weren't self employed, they were going back into corporate life. And they were just getting through to lunchtime and going into the bathroom to cry. What to share a little bit about that, or your experience or thoughts about that?
Karen McCarthy 26:08
Yeah, let's, you know, I'll try not to cry here now.
Unknown Speaker 26:11
Okay, sorry.
Karen McCarthy 26:12
No, always do anything. No, I feel really strongly about this. Because because I've been through it like this time, and I've been through before, like, had dogs before that passed away. And it's just, I think it's one of the hardest things you'll ever go through for a lot of reasons. And I think it's not, it's not understood by greater society of the why it's so hard. I like when you have an animal, that's a pet like that, like, they're, they're your family, they are your best friends. They're probably the one relationship in your life that is 100% positive, there's no negativity in it whatsoever, all the best things are associated with them. There's no judgment, there's unconditional love, there's all these things that you just don't get low there places. And then there's also the routine or the anchoring of the consistency of their presence in your life. So the first day that you wake up without the path is passed away, the first thing you do is already a problem. Like when you get older, you're like, I'll take them out to pay, oh, no, I won't, you know, these, this, these little moments that just hit you over and over and over again, in the smallest parts of your routine that just kill you. Like just the littlest thing I've heard people describe to me in so many ways I go out, I'm chopping up the chicken and I go to drop her a piece, and she's not there. And some of them in tears, you know, it's just all these little things that are just so normal routine. I like I think a lot of people again, in the pandemic, you know, got dogs or had dogs and got closer to them and spent more time with them. And because I was able to start my own business and work from home, that's been my life with them since 2017. I've spent every single day and night and manage with them. So it's just such a huge loss in a physical way. And then in all the emotional ways and all the different relationships that you have with them. And it's just and also then there's that like care or role that you have for them that you are like 100% responsible for their life. So they pass away on your watch as well. So is loaded guilt and everything that goes with that. So it's just it's layered and layered and layered, but then the minute you go out into the kind of normal world and you say I've asked my dad to go, Oh, you're gonna new and it's just like, wow. And you have to like put on a mask or whatever it is, you know, it's just, it's so so difficult. And I I found it. You know, I was very honest about it, because I was just like, these dogs are my world. So I am in bed, so I was not hiding it at all. Thankfully, I didn't have to because I didn't have an employer or whatever, at the time as well. But I, I had so many people I got so much support through Instagram, which made me love social media even worse. And there's loads of negative parts of social media, but because I had their Instagram account and I people who were following us for years on it, who knew her and also people who you don't even realize are following you so much that like would reach out to me and say, oh my god, I can't believe Jasmine passed away. Like we're sitting here the car and tears me and my mother and like, you know, just all these stories of people I got like people sending me handmade gifts from like Singapore, and you know, flowers to the door of people I'd never met before it was just like the the it was so incredibly overwhelming in a positive way that the support that came through and and to see how much of a constant presence like my dogs have become in these people's lives. And people were telling me like, oh, like I you know, I live alone, I don't really see people and I always check in on you and the dogs and it's just gives me such joy every day. And just so lovely to hear that. And just to not feel alone in like the loss because you can see other people are feeling it too. So that was an incredible support to have and, you know, people even people in my own life wouldn't have got it as much as like the strangers on the internet seem to.
Finola Howard 29:47
And do you think that people who are not pet owners can get it?
Karen McCarthy 29:50
I think they can if they are willing to have the conversation and if they can go beyond, but it's just like if that's a part of your sentence. Oh, it's just or will you get another one you're looking at as like an object and not like a family member. I like I don't know, sometimes it's hard if you haven't experienced it, and I'm like, totally fine if you haven't experienced it fair enough, but like, I think people should try and be more empathetic, just in anything like there's there's losses that I haven't experienced or may never experience that other people will, that I should still be sympathetic and empathetic to. Just because I haven't gone through it doesn't mean I can't have empathy. And I think it should be the same for for a path loss and just for it not to be seen as something ridiculous. Or like that there should be a window of pain or grief, or it can hit you forever and ever. Like I've had people. Even before Jasmine died, I had people stop me sometimes even in France, I like see them and like one of my dogs reminding them of what they have 20 years ago, and they've been tears telling me about this dog like is it just, they are really such a deep connection to you. There's such a bounder that is just beautiful, and very painful when you lose them.
Finola Howard 31:00
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I really, I kind of wanted to have you share that because it will resonate with so many people. I've had dogs in my own life that things I wouldn't done for Charlie's one little dog that I remember very dearly and would have dived into the river to save her and all of that, yes. So and she would have been sitting on my desk as I worked when I had her and I never got another dog since so I kind of wanted you to, to share that so that we could get that view into that world. So thank you for doing that. Really appreciate that. So we shall move on. But one of the things you didn't say they didn't check, you didn't say they changed your life, you wouldn't have seen social media only through them. But the only the other thing that really struck me was another gift that they gave to you was this idea of humanizing or personalizing or marketing and communication through social media of being more authentic, of being free to be more authentic. Yeah,
Karen McCarthy 32:07
definitely. Yeah, they, you know, they showed me the, almost the other side of Instagram of the community elements and the power of that and how you can how you can just really easily and deeply connect with somebody who's a million miles away, just because you have something in common, like, you know, dogs or animals or something like that. So I love I love that just, you know, the idea of like interest based connections, because you can just form friendships so deeply, like there's another actually comes to mind. This girl who I'm still friends with now, and we met on I think was actually on my Instagram that we met. But we she lives in Australia, and we've had a couple of conversations back and forth. And you know, we've been close enough. But when Jasmine passed away, she had also had suffered loss in her life as well. And she was just so incredibly supportive, that she created this piece of artwork that I now have hanging up in my bedroom. That's a gorgeous, like, it's it's hard to describe, it's just, I'm gonna cry when I saw it, because it was just a she had put together a story of Roxy and Jasmine's life in a in an image of like the two of them in center with like, you know, Paris in the background and travel in France and the kind of just called small dogs, big cities, she had these like small cities, and she had like a rainbow, and a universal, this connecting, like with Jasmine have a pass, it was just like, I was absolutely blown away that this person in Australia, who I would never in a million years have come across. And we've become such deep friends now we all we have calls regularly together about connecting. And she created this for me and I just that side of Instagram, like because I know, you know, I'm well aware of this terrible size of Instagram and all the rest, it's negative. But I just think it's it's as good as you make it. And there is a potential for it if you use it correctly for it to be so powerful not only for your business, but for personal relationships as well.
Finola Howard 33:59
So what's very clear to me is that all of these experiences have had a very direct impact on the way that you teach people about social media, your system or process or methodology of how you teach people about social media, and leveraging social media to sell. Because you know that terrible word sales that people are so scared of, you have been able to reframe that by and what I'm I did, and I highly recommend this to everybody listening, that Karen has this amazing course about content and really understanding how to use content in a different way for your social media to actually gain sales. And there's a theme through these and I'd love you to extrapolate a little bit more for people what is is the authenticity piece and being on camera and all of that. The other ones weren't the idea of that consistency and systems that will help you have more self care for times like this, and also the author intensity piece and copy, copy, copy. Tell us can you share with us if there was someone listening to this episode now? And they wanted to look at their social media from a different perspective? What are the three or five things that you would say to them immediately to do? Yeah.
Karen McCarthy 35:17
So I would say, the first place to start is with your own strengths as a communicator, and to understand like, Where, where are you most comfortable to show up on social media, because especially if we talk about a platform like Instagram, or most platforms at this stage, there's plenty of ways for you to show up. And it's more important that you do it your own way in your strengths, because it'll come across much more powerfully, rather than trying to fit yourself into a mold of what feels terrible right now, not to say you can't try it later on. But if you're trying to redefine your confidence, so for me, that was like, I was absolutely petrified of the idea of being on camera, I was just, like, never gonna happen. I'm a writer I write, that's it. I like for a long time, when I did social media, I was doing it for other people as well. So I didn't have to be on camera. So I very much was like, that's fine. I'm just gonna write for people, I don't need to be on camera. But then when I realized, okay, if I actually want to grow this as a business, I need to become the personal brand, I need to be on camera, which was difficult for me to do. But I, I leaned into it lots of ways, whereas they will, my strengths as a communicator is definitely being a writer. So let's, let's leverage the parts of the platform that support that. And you can do that in plenty ways. You can write text, you know, I still to this day, most of my posts are text based with a couple of images. And I lean much more I do long captions, all the things, a lot of people say you can't do this, you absolutely can. You can do whatever, if you do well. And you can do it. So I'd say lean into that, if you're a writer do the same. Like I do Lean into the carousels, the captions and put your time and effort into that you can write text on stories, all of that, if you are great on video, fantastic embrace that go with the reels go with the lives and all that, you know, there's plenty of ways and there's room for every type of communicator on it. So I think if you can do that, you're going to, you're going to sort of push yourself forward a lot faster, because you're gonna be able to show up easier in that way. And then when you have that confidence, you can explore the other parts like I've done. Now I go on those, I do all the reels and all the rest, so for the writing, but I can do as well, like absolutely petrified as I used to be. So I think it's just like piece of a piece of a piece at a time when I got to deal with the thing about social media as you can look at like all the things people are doing. And like somebody goes, this is the thing, because they're trying to put up a clickbait title and tell you this is the thing you need to do. Whereas it might not be for you. And that's okay. And it's about like, you might do things differently. And that's how you stand out as well. So the more authentic you can be to yourself, your own process and your strengths, the better and the easier it'll be for you. And the better you'll do on social media as well. So that's the first one.
Finola Howard 37:46
The one that I really love that you speak a lot about in your free course is, and it just makes complete sense. And nobody talks about this enough. Nobody talks about this at all at all enough. And it's this idea of mapping your content to your to the buyer journey. Can you share a little bit more? Because I think that's critical.
Karen McCarthy 38:04
Yeah, it is so important, I think I think it's funny, like social media sort of went off on this tangent on its own. And people forgot that it's a marketing tool when you're using it for business. And they went into the influencer sphere, and let's share we have for breakfast and like, do we kind of just to get the vanity metrics of vanity metrics, which you know, we're just focusing on the likes followers, which is the way to do Instagram, if you are an influencer, a celebrity or whatever it Yeah, go for it if you want to do that. But if you're a business owner, you need to forget all that, I need to go back to your marketing basics. So that's where it kind of goes full circle where it's like, you're here to sell something and you have to embrace that. You don't have to be the sleazy secondhand car salesman by any means. But you do need to set your audience on a buyer journey because the the essence of the buyer journey is that people need to like know and trust you. And that's what you need to create content that facilitates that. So there's very specific types of content that will allow that they will get the vanity metrics, you'll have to sort of come to terms with the fact that you may not get the likes or the comments that you think you should, but you'll get the sales that you want and that's what you're here for. So there's a real perspective shift with it when you realize you're playing the wrong game. And you're trying to just like compete with people who are doing something completely different to you and you're taking advice from a cancer doing something completely different to you when all you need to do is get a handful of people to say yes I want to work with you. And that's the buyer journey content. And so I see it all in like clients all the time where they almost at the start is always they go through a process of at the start going oh god I put out that piece but like it got like three likes or something or 20 likes I'm like that's fine your brand keep going. And then they eventually say oh my god, I doubled my sales. They like what now? And then they're like I feel so much better now going on social media and not having to worry about the valuation metrics. So now I don't I know they don't matter. I mean, getting the sales. That's all that matters. And it's just such a nicer way to be on social media. Because you start to see the numbers as humans rather than Oh, I just need to get to the photo the photo The followers like you don't just like if you're not selling to the people who are already following you, you've got a problem with your content not you need to get more followers share
Finola Howard 40:07
people, these four steps that you have about buyer journey so that they can get a sense of every post that they write needs to address where because everybody's not ready for a sale immediately. So we have to understand that there's a journey that they go on. So it's like the funnel, all that kind of stuff we talked about before. But if you can share that idea of these four stages that that buyer will be at, they will be at one of these stages. Yeah. And that you've got to map your content to that. I think that would really help everyone. Yeah,
Karen McCarthy 40:40
definitely. So I think it's, you know, it's two things, it's like people are at different stages of our journey. And then you have different types of buyers as well who need different things. So some people will come on and see your posts and go, you're totally right, I'm in and buy. And other people be like, I get what you're saying. But I don't know if I like or you or trust you or want to work with you, I want to know more about you as human. So I want to see. So that's where you need to put it the content, that's the personal post content, the personal brand content, you're talking about why you do what you do, how you do it, you're going on your stories and letting them little bit into your life. Again, always, you never have to share anything that you don't want to share. You're always sharing it with that lens of this is me as a personal brand, not necessarily me as a person. So like I don't, you know, I don't have kids, but I wouldn't share kids on if I did share my dogs. They're okay with that. But you know, I always say to my clients, you don't have to share anything, you don't want to share it, you're just trying to share as much as you would if you went to like a network events, what you would say to people in that room is your personal brand content. So your that's really important side of it. The other side, we call it like problem awareness content for the people who are focusing on the wrong symptom that they have, they're not fully aware of what's actually going on, which is most of us by the way, like I'm the same as a buyer flow may decide this is my problem. And I go off on a tangent to try and fix it this way would actually it's over here. So you need content, that educates them around the problem they have, rather than just randomly educating them around still, if you want to tell them, I know you feel like this, but here's what's actually happening. And that puts you in a position of being a real authority and an expert. Or they go, Oh, I trust this person, because they've actually given me this perspective shift that nobody else has. And I was off here in the tangent, and now I'm going in the right direction, thanks to them. So you've really built a strong relationship by doing that. Then it's solution awareness content, which is where you're showing the kind of social proof about like, You're not just saying, This isn't like you just looked this up and put it down there. Here's why you know what you're talking about, you've worked with clients, this is how they've done this, you showing results clients of God, or if you don't have that yet, results that you've gotten and what you've done, and how you know, so you're basically saying, This is how what's happened, what I've put what I'm telling you into practice for myself and for my clients. And again, that's creating the trust factor, starting to get them to think about you as a solution above anybody else. And then we've got agitation, which I always call kind of spices, problem awareness, which I always say does not need to be mean I am so not with the main marketing the like, you know, here's what you're doing wrong, you don't need to do that. You're more just kind of just pushing a little bit deeper on a on a pain point where these are people who are saying, okay, I get it. Now, I'm going to do this, but it's still not working. So you're telling them why it's still not working, because they're still missing something. So you're just going a little bit deeper, and they go, Okay, so these could be the people who go, Oh, great. I read your problem awareness post, I'm gonna go do my own. I don't need anybody. And then you go, it's still not quite working, though, right? Well, here's why they go, okay. No, I actually do need you. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna opt into that the agitation posts will often be the ones that get them to just come and take action, if they've been thinking about it for a while. And you're just putting that mix out every week to just bring people through the journey. And you're catching people at different moments. And again, like I've had people, follow me look at a post and sign up straightaway. I've had people follow me for two years straight, and then eventually sign up. And so everybody is different. And it's just about trusting the process with that and letting them go through the journey as they need to. And being
Finola Howard 44:02
patient. You know, being patient with us.
Karen McCarthy 44:04
Yeah, absolutely. comes faster. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Finola Howard 44:09
I love that. I really wanted you to share that with people because it's very pragmatic. And again, I reiterate, and I'll put this in the show notes. The do check out Karen's free course called the simplified content creation methods. So like, I did it last week. So it's really, really good. What would you love to leave people with here today?
Karen McCarthy 44:31
I would love to leave people with the idea that this doesn't need to be complicated. It's not that it's easy. It's not that there's like there's no such thing as overnight success and all the rest, but it doesn't need to be so overcomplicated that you can't even get past the first hurdle. Like it's just there's just too much noise out there. And you're also getting advice from the wrong places. And it's not even that they're doing anything wrong. It's just they're doing something different to you. So I think it's just being careful where you get Get your advice from knowing that there's no reason this kind of work for you. And I think a lot of it comes from letting go with the vanity metrics and letting go of what you think it should look like. And that you're putting so much worth on a post getting a certain amount of likes and comments versus the sales that you're getting for a piece of content. And then you got a handful of likes. And to really also have the perspective shift of, if you took the amount of followers you have right now put them all in the room beside you. That'd be more than enough people for you to run your business for the foreseeable future. And to remember that every single person who is following you is a human being, and that you are so much better off to nurture those connections and looking for something that isn't yet there yet, and they will come again, patients will come.
Finola Howard 45:42
Wonderful. That was more than one thing. Thank you so much, Karen. A pleasure. I'm so delighted you joined us.
Karen McCarthy 45:50
Thank you so much for having me.
Finola Howard 45:52
I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you'd like to find out more about Karen, then check out the simplified social media.com. And we'll add a link to the show notes. So you can actually sign up for her free course called the simplified content creation method, which I highly recommend. If you'd like to support the show, please follow or subscribe on your chosen platform. It makes all the difference to the impact that I'd love this podcast to have on the world deeper conversations that allow us to grow to celebrate each other's truths and to know that there are many who are working with a greater purpose in the world.
